Joe Rogan – a self-described ‘atheist’ – was amazed after being gifted what his guest claimed is evidence Jesus was real.
The podcaster had religious scholar Wesley Huff on his show this week where, during the course of their discussion, Rogan admitted he may have had things wrong about the religion.
Huff handed Rogan a replica of what Christians say is one the oldest known manuscripts of the Bible, known as Papyrus 52, which is believed to be the oldest excerpt of the long-lost Gospel of John in the Bible.
Thought to have been written nearly 2,000 years ago, the artifact details how Jesus stood trial and some consider it eyewitness testimony from the period leading up to his crucifixion.
Rogan, receiving the gift with a stunned look on his face, said: ‘Wow. That’s unbelievable. Wow. That’s so fascinating.’
Christians hail Papyrus 52 as evidence that the events in the Bible took place as they are described in the Holy text.
Rogan has flip flopped between being a believer and non-believer, something he attributes to a difficult childhood.
He has previously said growing up he was ‘pretty atheist’ but became spiritual after the death of his grandfather.
Huff, the son of missionaries, was born in Pakistan and grew up surrounded by religion, saying his family had the Bhagavad Gita [Hindu scripture], the Book of Mormon and the Koran on the shelf.
He gave Rogan a replica of the ancient papyrus as a gift during the podcast on Tuesday.
The front reads ‘Jesus says, everyone who follows the truth, who is following the truth, follows me.’
The back has the words of [Pontius] Pilate saying, ‘What is truth?” Pilate was the governor of Rome who was said to have sentenced Jesus to death.
The artifact is a small fragment, but the complete document ‘would have been essentially like a pocket copy of the Gospel of John’ that someone carried from Turkey to Egypt, according to Huff.
The Gospel of John is a book in the Bible that tells the story of Jesus’ life, teachings, miracles, death, and resurrection.
The gift given to Rogan features the same text of the original document found in the 1940s, later leading researchers to determine that the Book of John was the oldest Gospel.
Some historians argue that Papyrus P52, although found in Egypt, was a Christian manuscript because it was written on both sides.
Historical records show only Christians wrote on both sides of papyrus thousands of years ago, while everyone else used scrolls.
Huff said John’s eyewitness account was probably written in Ephesus and spread throughout different countries and copied, finding its way to Egypt.
Describing how he made the gift, Huff said: ‘So I cut that out on the papyri with a scalpel. And then I transcribed the text on.’
‘[You] did a great job, dude… you nerded out,’ Rogan said.
During the podcast, the two also discussed the resurrection.
The Bible states Jesus was resurrected from the dead three days after dying on the cross, which scripture says was to forgive the world of its sins.
Huff mentioned ancient anti-Christian graffiti that was etched into a plaster wall of an imperial training school for ancient Roman slaves between 50AD and 250AD.
Called the Alexamenos Graffito, many followers of the church believe it is the earliest image of the Biblical crucifixion.
Beneath the cross is ancient Greek text that reads, ‘Alexamenos worships God,’ as a way to mock an individual in the drawing who appears to be dressed like a slave.
The ancient graffiti was done during a time when Christianity was frowned upon by Romans who practiced paganism, which believed is what led them to power, but it has not been confirmed to be a depiction of Jesus Christ.
The carved message was uncovered in 2021 inside a building located on Rome’s Palatine Hill.
Rogan took the conversation as step forward, asking: ‘Who was it that got crucified upside down?’ To which Huff replied: ‘Peter.’
Peter was one of the Twelve Apostles and leaders of the early Christian Church.
His execution was ordered by the Roman Emperor Nero, who blamed the city’s Christians for a terrible fire that had ravaged Rome.
The Biblical historian explained that Peter said it was ‘too big of an honor to die like my Lord,’ so the Romans strung him upside down.
‘Oh Jesus. Shut your mouth, buddy,’ said Rogan. ‘Listen, the Romans were pretty brutal,’ Huff said.
The podcaster again raised the question about Jesus possibly never dying and recovered from the wounds of hanging on the cross.
Huff mentioned a study published by a group of biblical scholars and medical professionals that was published in 1986 in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Pathologist Dr William Edwards, who led the study, concluded that Jesus’ death was ‘related primarily to hypovolemic shock, exhaustion asphyxia [suffocation], and perhaps acute heart failure. A fatal cardiac arrhythmia may have accounted for the apparent catastrophic terminal event.’
To balance things out, Rogan asked if we have an account of the denial of the resurrection.
‘No, the only ones from the ancient world that deny his resurrection are groups that come on afterwards that sometimes are — sometimes are described as Gnostics, and they’re not necessarily just denying it for the reasons we might think they were,’ Huff said.
‘They’re denying it because they have incorporated ideas of pagan philosophy, where they believe that the spiritual is good and the physical is bad.’
